2006.12.04

Our lofty claims and due diligence

Several weeks ago I posted an entry entitled The responsibility of being pioneers in which I talked about the online trend of making invalid and unverified claims of being first to achieve something.

A Podcast named Children’s Book Radio was launched on October 26, 2006. Its website claims “Childrensbookradio is the first independent Podcast dedicated to discussing children’s books” [update 2006-12-12: the screen capture of the Children's Book Radio website which included this quote was removed from this post at the request of that site owner citing that I am not licensed to use it. You can find a cached copy from Google (thanks, Bob).] and the spoken introduction of the two Podcast episodes published to date claim it is “the only independent Podcast featuring entirely children’s books”. Perhaps these statements are part of a marketing strategy to attract advertisers to Teachtopia.com, the network behind Children’s Book Radio.

These claims are inaccurate. There are many independent Podcasts that are exclusively about children’s books. My own independent children’s book Podcast, Just One More Book, launched in July and, as of this writing, shows up second on a Google search of the words children’s book podcast, and is embedded in the first result when those words are bound in quotes. Just One More Book has never claimed to be the first Podcast of its specific type, though we have found no evidence to the contrary – of course, we have only searched in English.

Children’s Book Radio was notified via email on November 27 that their claims are inaccurate. They have not yet responded.

As tempting as it may be and as good as it may feel to be seen as the first to achieve something, we have a responsibility to be good neighbours in the new social media. Let’s eliminate all doubt before we make our claims.

  • http://inoveryourhead.net/ julien

    email me, i’ll get you that number one spot.

  • http://idreamincolors.com Nico

    The problem is not so much about claiming to be the first, it’s about claiming to be the only. A listener interested in children’s books who found Children’s Book Radio may not look around for other similar shows if they believed there were none.

  • http://idreamincolors.com Nico

    Oh and btw, the JOMB site looks way better… ;)

  • http://www.markblevis.com Mark

    Nico:

    You’re right. Many people will listen to the Podcast and will accept that it is indeed the only resource available in its niche. Since the audio program could arguably live forever that message could still be accepted as current in two year’s time.

    This further illustrates the degree of care we must take.

    Mark

  • http://www.brocasarea.ca Dave Brodbeck

    The free flow of information on the net, and the idea that anything on the net is free to do waht you want with it, i think, are at the root of such shoddy claims. There is an aspect to the online culture which is based on torrenting music and movies, copying work and presenting it as you own (I see some of that in my classes) and hijacking pics that I think just fosters such sillyy claims. Or maybe I just read that somewhere and did not want to attribute it….

  • http://www.markblevis.com Mark

    Thank goodness Andrea and I never claimed to be the first independently produced children’s book podcast. I just stumbled on The Bobby Bucket Show today. It’s a Podcast about children’s books that launched on July 6, 2005 and ended after 7 episodes on August 28, 2005.

  • http://childrensbookradio.com Jody

    Mark and I were unaware of eachother’s podcasts. I wish Mark the best of success and am attempting to clarify all the contentions made my Mark regarding false claims on Childrensbookradio.com.

  • Jody

    I did not authorize mark to use any portion of Childrensbookradio.com
    in his site. (the screenshot was unauthorized)

    and yes…I am aware of grammatical mistakes in my quick response above.

    I have no intent in being in a conlfict with Mark and I truly want this issue to be resolved.

  • http://www.brocasarea.ca Dave Brodbeck

    I have been marking papers all morning so my grammar will likely really blow, or suck, funny how those both mean the same thing eh?

    The point, I think, is not a matter of conflict, or a matter of unauthorized screenshots (though it would strike me that such a screenshot would be fair use, however, I am no lawyer, though I watch a lot of lawyer shows…) it is about people doing their research I guess. A google search would not be all that hard to do. You google (or Google, take your pick…) and check if there is another ‘cast like yours.

    This kind of reminds me of academia. I oft review articles for scientific journals, and now and then someone rediscovers something. I usually, in my review, point out to the authors that they shoudl read some paper or another and reference it. They are usually a little sheepish and thankful that I (or another reviewer) caught the error.

    BTW, Children’s Book Radio looks cool, and you guys have reviewed some nice books there. So this is most definitely not a slam at anyone.

  • http://www.bobgoyetche.com Bob Goyetche

    We all want to be first, and it’s humbling when we announce that we are and then told we’re not. We so desperately want some moniker attributed to our work, yet that’s hard to do when the body of work is too young to speak for itself. This is a classic example of “old PR” vs “New Social media PR”.. In olden times, you put a claim up, and no one (other than lawyers) could really call you on it publicly. Those days are gone. You’d better be sure about anything you put on the net, as the world is potentially watching. If not the world, then at least a few cached histories..

    If they had said “We’re the BEST children’s book show”.. at worst they would have seemed arrogant, at best the debate would have caused people to listen. At least the discussion would be about the topic at hand: the show. Now, the discussion is about playing nice in the social media space.

    This is the time of social media, if you want to be in the pool, prepare to swim. The right reaction in this “Everything’s on the net for all to see” time we’re in is to be gracious, acknowledge the misstep, and give real reasons why your show/blog/whatever should be on our radar.

    I’m not a lawyer, but screen shots need to be authorized?? If anyone wants to see the original web site (with it’s arrogantly erroneous claim) go to google’s chached version ( http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:TVCNOJDvCe8J:www.childrensbookradio.com/+www.childrensbookradio.com&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3&client=firefox-a ) surely you authorized GOOGLE to use it..

    All is not lost, an honest mea-culpa, a show of commitment to honesty, and this all goes away. Welcome to the web, hope you enjoy your stay.

  • http://inoveryourhead.net/ julien

    Jody: If you don’t want screenshots of your (100% public) website used on other sites, you are in the wrong business.

    Podcasting is about people and about communication. If you are uncomfortable with people’s discussion of your own (public) statements in other sections of the web, you are in for a rude awakening. This is likely not the first, nor will it be the last, time it happens (especially if you tell people they have ‘unauthorized’ screenshots of your site). Please take a moment to step back and decide to join the conversation, rather than be at odds with it.

  • http://www.bobgoyetche.com Bob Goyetche

    Jody: in the spirit of community, let me offer help by adding that by definition a podcast has an RSS feed. I couldn’t find it on your site. It’s either hard to find, or not there. Show that RSS badge proudly!

  • http://idreamincolors.com Nico

    What “issue” are you talking about, Jody? it was brought to your attention, in a polite way, that you had incorrect information on your website (and i explained in a previous comment why does that affect not only other similar shows but also the listeners). I don’t see how that has to become an issue.

    And just for the record, my comment about the website look was toungue-in-cheek, since i designed the Just One More Book site. Like Dave said, it wasn’t a slam at anyone.

  • http://www.brocasarea.ca Dave Brodbeck

    I just checked and it is listed in iTunes.

    The comments about socila media are important. Commentary and community (and a sense of well, almost ownership, or, god I cannot beleive I am about to say this, stakeholding..) is part of the deal in the web 2.0 era. Check out digg.com or slashdot, hell even the ebay QA discussion board for the types of discusions and comments that go on.

    As they would say on /. “In Soviet Russia all children’s books are about Lenin”

    Dave

  • http://www.podcastbandito.com daryl cognito

    The site suggests subscribing, but I just couldn’t find a way to subscribe. I did notice the change in the statement, but it continues with the marketing speak. What does “Uniquely Independent” mean? Blogging and podcasting can compliment any business or group. However, it does need to maintain the general themes and “rules” of social media. I am drawn to podcasting and blogs because I want a connection with the people offering information and I want the information I receive to be clear, open and above all honest. If I was looking to hear about childrens books I would be turned off by claims like “the best” or “the only”.

    I don’t think I am adding anything new to this discussion, but I find it frustrating to see “New Media” being used to deliver the same old message.

  • http://www.mostlynews.net Charles Cadenhead

    Daryl, Even though it is marketing speak I like the tag “Uniquely Independent” though it may be considered redundant.
    One thing is discussion is doing and that is driving more traffic to Children’s Book Radio. Nothing like a good controversy to increase traffic. ;)

  • http://www.justonemorebook.com Andrea

    Charles,

    We’re very happy to drive traffic to Children’s Book Radio!

    Our goal at http://www.JustOneMoreBook.com is to promote the reading and enjoyment of great children’s books and, as you can tell from our very full Thanks! page, we feel that the more sites, projects, people working towards this goal the better off we’ll all be.

    With the single exception of CBR, we have found all players in the online KidLit space to enthusiastically share this “the more the merrier — let’s all work together to achieve our common goal” attitude.

    In stark contrast, in response to our request that Jody remove her false claims, Jody told us that she is excited to learn she has “competition”. Competition? If my goal was advertising dollars rather than promotion of reading then I guess I would consider other players in the kidLit space to be “competition”.

    This might also explain her threat: ” I am holding you to your own no monetary gains claim. That means no affiliate links through amazon etc.. ” . Gee….I never thought of profitting from all those books that are being sold as a result of our 70 glowing reviews….

    Andrea

  • http://www.mostlynews.net Charles Cadenhead

    Do you mean there isn’t hundreds of thousands of people buying books because of your reviews!!!! The horror!!!! ;) Y’all do a great job, which you should be proud of.

  • http://www.justonemorebook.com Andrea

    No, there are probably hundreds of thousands of people buying books as a result of our reviews — but we have chosen not to profit, financially, from those sales!

    I have no way to prove that hundreds of thousands number, btw, but hey it’s the internet so I can say what I like!

  • http://www.mostlynews.net Charles Cadenhead

    LOL! :)

  • http://www.brocasarea.ca Dave Brodbeck

    What is this BS about ‘competition’ and ‘holding you to making no money’? What kind of weenies are these people? You know, frankly, people say what they will on the net and I guess that is fine, as a veteran of the internet (since 86) I am used to that. But to be supposedly a resource for teachers and kids these people are acting like kids, bratty nasty kids that have not taken their Ritalin….

    (disclaimer, i have no problem with people making money, or with being paid to teach, ahem, but i have a problem with pretense, a really big frakking problem).

    Dave

  • http://www.mostlynews.net Charles Cadenhead

    Dave you crack me up! ;) I 100% (while maybe 99.9%) agree with you too.

  • http://www.brocasarea.ca Dave Brodbeck

    Charles, I do what I can for the people….

  • http://www.podcastbandito.com daryl cognito

    I am all for not making money I mean we all love free content. A big part of the podcasting revolution is rejecting old media and money driven content. However, we do need to make a living. Right now the models for making money from podcasting (if I miss any let me know) advertise on the podcast, have the podcast sponsored, sell products through the podcast. Problem is we are continuing with the old models and I really don’t think they work. If you have to advertise your product, then I don’t need it, meaning if I haven’t found it on my own then it is irrelevant. I digress, instead of people say, “we won’t make money from our efforts we do it for love”. I would like to hear people talk about new ways to make money while maintaining the “spirit” of the revolution.

    I hope I followed the conversation and didn’t go off on tangent.

  • http://www.bobgoyetche.com Bob Goyetche

    I think Dave nailed it, we’re talking weenie here.

    Ok now, Everybody submit links so that when someone googles weenie, Jody’s page shows up..

    No Jody, we won’t actually do that – but it’s interesting how you yourself just googled “weenie”…. heheh..

  • http://AllAxisRadio.com Ajay – All Axis Radio

    Are we seriously having a lengthy discussion about “firsts” in Podcasting? Okay. I may have been out of grade school for some time, but isn’t this getting a little elementary?

    No, Jody can’t call call “Not It.”

    Yes, Mark Blevis has cooties.
    Tones of them, in fact.

    But arguing over who has the first — or even the best — childrens’ book podcast just makes me want to curl up with my peanut butter and banana sandwich and think about Jasime Rault.

    So, here’s the breakdown.

    #1 – Restrictions have to be honoured. If Jody’s website is magically governed by some new-age law that prohibits the exhibition of public information, so be it. Mark, you lose 2 “podCOOL” points for that one.

    #2 – No matter how fresh you think your idea is, someone else probably thought of it earlier. You’ve got a great service, Jody. Concentrate on making it the best it can be, and keep the corporate responsibility B.S. separate. -2 “podCOOL” points.

    And to everyone else, just relax; The day Mark Blevis sees legal repercussions without a virtual harem of character witnesses and support is the day I turn in my autographed James Brown album.

    My name is Ajay, and I have a podcast.
    - AllAxisRadio.com

  • http://www.justOneMoreBook.com Andrea

    Ajay,

    I think you get a detention for not paying attention during class!!

    Or at least a class in remedial reading
    Andrea

  • http://www.markblevis.com Mark

    Ajay:

    Social media is not about being the first or best – or “only”. It’s about contributing to the collective. It’s about doing your research (particularly where a business is concerned) before you oversell yourself to attract clients and advertisers under false pretense. It’s about not dismissing the very community you are trying to become a part of.

    As I write this, I realize why the grassroots community always raises its hackles when financially motivated enterprises move in.

    Mark

  • http://people.auc.ca/brodbeck/blog Dave Brodbeck

    For me Mark it is know it alls that don’t, that has always bothered me.

  • http://www.brocasarea.ca Dave Brodbeck

    OK, what do I mean by that. I mean I do not like people that act like know it alls that are not know it alls. A REAL know it all, I have no problem with them. It all goes back to the pretense thing I was talking about.

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