I’m amazed at how often the question “how can I make money from podcasting?” comes up in podcasting circles – even when I introduce podcasting to people for the first time. If it’s not the first thought out of someone’s mouth, it’s one of the first.
Among podcasters, the tendency is to want to make money from hobby podcasts. That’s analogous to monetizing your garden. In fact, recent conferences have had sessions, even entire presentation tracks, dedicated to realizing an income from hobby podcasts.
Here are my consolidated thoughts, and advice, on making money through podcasting.
SPONSORSHIP AND ADVERTISING
Focus on your show. Absolutely noone is going to throw money at a podcast or podcaster that has no proven track record of quality content, context, delivery and production — never mind an audience. If you have any aspirations of scoring advertising or sponsorship money, develop your show and hosting skills, and build a real and engaged community.
Have a value proposition for any potential advertisers. I believe that a business is more likely to throw money at a show that has 200 actively engaged participants as part of a focused community, than 20,000 nameless, faceless downloads that cannot be explained. That is to say, you’re more likely to get a “This garden sponsored by…” sign for a garden that 200 people go out of their way to admire, talk with the creator about and promote to others, than one that 20,000 people absent-mindedly drive past during their rush to work.
Make it easy on yourself; podcast on a niche topic (say, gardening). This makes it easy to understand who your potential sponsors are. If I had to guess, you’re looking at about a year (six months if you’re amazingly good — or lucky) to have something worth selling.
CONSULTANT/PRODUCER
Develop skills that are in demand. Making good money requires a different and more focused approach that many people don’t like hearing about because of the amount of time and energy it requires. Develop sought-after skills then sell your services to consult on, or produce, someone else’s (read: a company’s) podcast.
Select specific skills to develop. Pick three to start and immerse yourself in becoming advanced or expert in those skills. I’m thinking of skills like voice talent/hosting, interviewing, creating a buzz, converting calls to action, building and engaging a community, editing, field recording, and audio clean-up and production to name a few. Read about them, practice them, listen for them, practice them, ask people about them, practice them, attend presentations on them, and practice them. Get to the point that you can do these things — with consistently effective results — with the greatest of ease. Establish a body of work and a reputation and the business will come to you.
Expect this to take a year. If you really work hard at this, you could hone your skills in six months or less. Proving those skills and building a body of work takes time.
FINAL THOUGHT
Even though podcasting is an online phenomenon, social media and business success is based on personalities and strong personal relationships. Be the person people want to work with and recommend — in capabilities and personality.
“This Garden Sponsored by…” photo: Nico.
Monetize? I don’t think I should touch this one, you’ll boot me off here for good.
But I can’t resist…I’ll make one suggestion: Don’t waste your time. Like it or not, once you convert your hobby to cash it’s not called a “hobby” anymore, it’s called a “job”.
I know it seems like there are exceptions to this but those are merely hobbies in transition to jobs. I know people like Dawn and Drew have Podshow VC coming in that let them “quit their day jobs” but now they have to podcast to pay the bills. What does that amount to? It’s their new day job.
Comment by Ross — April 12, 2007 @ 2:55 am
Ross:
You raise a really good point. However, I believe it is still possible — and fairly common — to have a separate hobby and job that are based on the same skills and that aren’t specifically connected; both can be equally fun and rewarding. Musicians and writers come to mind, to name just two. Indeed, I have a number of paying contracts to consult on and produce podcasts and I still produce Electric Sky, Just One More Book and Canadian Podcast Buffet (and soon Growing Enthusiasm, again) for personal satisfaction.
Philosophically, I feel that it is important to love what you do for a living. If you have to drag yourself out of bed in the morning to make money to survive, it’s time to rethink what you’re doing. Sometimes it makes sense to start a career that is based on your hobby or other love.
Where I am in violent agreement with you is people who want to specifically unite their hobby podcast and income — the sponsorship/advertising route. That’s a great recipe to end up in a pressure situation; changing things to satisfy another’s interest, be married to a specific production schedule and lose sight of the core of your Podcast (among the long list of issues that I can add to). That’s where the garden analogy works so well. I can see this approach being a hobby killer.
Mark
Comment by Mark — April 12, 2007 @ 7:02 am
Violent agreement? I’m not sure if that’s good or bad.
I’ll just add this: I have no problem being paid to do something I enjoy but I would not compromise my enjoyment for the sake of making money. If I ceased to enjoy doing it, I would stop. Further, I would have no problem selling what I create to a source worthy of owning my creation however I would not dilute my creation with something that does not add to the creation (e.g. advertisement, sponsor).
[In other words, I'm not taking on ads or sponsors but if you want to buy a piece of art (audio or otherwise) we can negotiate a price.]
I should also add that I have no problem going to a “day job” where my heart is not “100% into it” because let’s face it…we need to make a living to survive and it’s a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll.
Comment by Ross — April 12, 2007 @ 2:50 pm
If you get paid for something you love, something that you would do anyway (and I’m not talking about podcasting now) would it still be “just a job?”
In my essence I am a teacher, I will always be a teacher, no matter what my current job is. It doesn’t matter if I’m being paid or not, I have to teach. Some part of me is not fulfilled if I’m not teaching. With that said, and boy was it whiny, shouldn’t I be “allow” to be paid for something I’m good at? Should loving something you do or doing something that starts as a hobby, automatically exclude you from being paid?
I don’t hear debates about monetizing teaching, or auto mechanics. Something that starts as a hobby can become a part-time or full-time job or even a career.
What makes a “job” a “job” isn’t that you are getting paid, it’s a profession that you don’t love or even like. It’s just something to pay the bills. A career or calling is something that you love that you would do even if you were not paid for it. If there are podcasters out there who can make money at this why penalize them if they choose to monetize? Again, we don’t expect teachers to teach for free or computer programmers to write code for free, so why do we expect podcasters to podcast for free?!?!?
-Charles
Comment by Charles Cadenhead — April 13, 2007 @ 9:45 am
But can teaching even be a hobby, realistically?
You bring up a point: If I were going to pay someone for their work, someone who enjoys their work (such as a teacher or an auto-mechanic), they usually need to go to school for it, have an extensive background in it, and usually be certified by some governing body. Not anyone can just walk into a school and say “I want to teach”, not anyone can walk into an auto service shop and start fixing cars that same day just because they understand how an automobile works. You need to go complete school, get certified, and then get hired.
In other words, you need to put in the groundwork to convert your passion into a career even if you do love it. Should you be paid if you’re a doctor and love to doctor? Yes…however I certainly would hope that before you get paid for doing such you’ve been to school and certified to be one.
Podcasting is so much in it’s infancy, I don’t know why everyone is rushing to try and make money at it so quick. Perhaps I’m looking in the wrong places but I don’t see a rush of bog posts asking “How can I monetize my bog?”
Comment by Ross — April 13, 2007 @ 11:21 am
Okay, I did a search: It seems there are people looking to monetize their blogs, with not much luck though it seems.
I’m changing my statement to “I don’t see a rush of blog posts asking ‘How can I monetize my MySpace page?’”
Comment by Ross — April 13, 2007 @ 1:40 pm
Ross, teaching pays like a hobby….
Comment by Dave Brodbeck — April 13, 2007 @ 9:21 pm
Yes it can, look at all the volunteers who lead Scout groups, teach scrapbook classes at their local community centers, docents at museums, etc.
Ross, what is your problem with people wanting to make money? Every time this conversation comes up here you come to shoot it down. You sound like a Southern Baptist preacher delivering a brimstone and damnation sermon. Why can’t you just be happy for people wanting to monetize?
Comment by Charles Cadenhead — April 13, 2007 @ 10:08 pm
Well, this is a lively discussion isn’t it.
I just want to chime in on the monetizing of blogs. There are a number of blogs out there that have been extremely successful and make a decent amount of money. Check out blogs like problogger.net for more info. I think some of the talk about monetizing a podcasts comes from the success of blogging and pay for click ads. I am currently working on a niche blog that I may monetize and shoot for at least 2k per month in ad revenue and sponsorship. I don’t know if I will get it but that is the goal.
Comment by daryl cognito — April 13, 2007 @ 10:43 pm
Charles, or teaching at Algoma University…..
We don’t do Broca’s Area for cash but clicks of the google ads make us happy. We have a tip jar too, but well 20 bucks over a year….. Anyway, I am not in this for the coin.
Comment by Dave Brodbeck — April 13, 2007 @ 10:58 pm
I don’t have a problem with someone trying to make money (and yes, I could “just be happy” but that wouldn’t make for much of a discussion of the topic). I’m just looking at the situation realistically. I think I’ve already stated that more or less. Also, for the record, I’m not sure I’ve ever shot the idea down like a Baptist preacher, I don’t think I’ve ever even discussed the topic on Mark’s blog before (I can only assume you’re referring to one-time discussion of the subject elsewhere where I requested to remove the link for a “tip jar” on our show’s page at the Podcast Pickle).
Podshow has had millions of dollars behind them for close to 2 years now trying to turn this into a lucrative endeavor. Have they made much progress and if you feel they have would you want to follow their model anwyay? I’m not sure what Go Daddy and Splenda are paying but personally speaking it’s not worth it to me, to permanently compormise your content for some product placement with little cash return.
Good luck with the blog, Daryl. I sincerely hope it works out for you.
Comment by Ross — April 13, 2007 @ 11:05 pm
[Sorry, brevity is not my strong point:]
I should clarify as I wrote my last comment hastily. I have no problem with someone trying to monetize their podcast regardless of whether or not I think they can or what I think an effective way to go about it is.
I do have opinions on the topic in general and while I am happy to see anyone following their dreams I still am going to voice my opinions on the topic in a public or private discussion when called upon. I am not shooting the idea down; I’m merely stating my opinions in a friendly discussion rather than absently nodding in agreement. The topic was presented, we were (indirectly) asked for our opinions, and I gave my honest opinion. As a reader of Mark’s blog I’m not going to refrain completely or voice something I don’t agree with just to “keep the peace”. No ill will is intended, it’s an intelligent discussion among what I assume to be like-minded people. If you feel my contributions are questionable then let’s discuss them here or privately if you wish.
That aside, I will note: I agree with Mark’s suggestion regarding developing your production skills. There is money to be made in developing your production/hosting skills and marketing those as a contractor or employee to potential clients or employers. There are a lot of companies out there who see the value in podcasting (and general multi-media communications) internally and externally and are willing to pay good money for it.
It’s easy to see how this topic can get so heated. It spawns many more questions which can easily get this side-tracked, as well. For instance:
“Should I sign on with a podcast network?”
“What about Kiptronic or Podshow, can they help me make money?”
“To tip jar or not to tip jar?”
“Does Cafe Press generate much cash?”
“Is the $200 I hope to make from advertising even worth it in the long run”
“Am I worthy of getting ads? If not, am I prepared for the rejection?”
Or more importantly:
“How much is my show worth and how much is an ad worth to be put on it?”
“If I put the ad on my show and you are paying per download, will I get paid per download from now until the time the show is taken offline?”
You have some good examples of turning your hobbies into financial gains. Using the “teacher who becomes a scout troop leader for a hobby to continue his teaching skills” as an example: How do you monetize that? How do you monetize your scout troop leadership into a career that you will not get burned out on? When the point is reached that it ceases to become a hobby and turns into a career shouldn’t you need to find a new hobby (and if so, does the new hobby become monetized too)?
Mark previously used the example of writers and musicians. It should be noted that there is a disproportionate ratio of those in said fields who are successful to those who aren’t. Also, I’ve read many books where it’s clear it was a painful chore for the author to write (in their words). And anyone who has seen Metallica’s “Some Kind Of Monster” will know that rock star isn’t all it’s made out to be either.
Lastly: I think Martha Stewart has done a terrific job of monetizing her garden.
Comment by Ross — April 14, 2007 @ 3:36 am
[...] How do I Make Money From Podcasting? [...]
Pingback by Canadian Podcast Buffet » Blog Archive » 60: Timothy Pilgrim, Jeff Parks and PAB 40% sold out — April 14, 2007 @ 9:28 pm
On the grassy side of the garden, I think Neil Young has done also done a great job of counter-monetizing his hobby of model trains: He bought the Lionel, the model train company.
He’s financially successful yet in the 10+ years he’s been a minority shareholder the company has not done so well. In fact it’s on the verge of declaring bankruptcy and he doesn’t seem to care too much, he just wants to continue his passion as a model train enthusiast.
Comment by Ross — April 14, 2007 @ 10:54 pm
Charles,
Why so you always have to be such a sycophant? Are people not allowed to have civilized conversations, debates and disagreements with each other to stimulate even more conversation or add to the topic something someone may have overlooked? Do we have to “amen” and smily face emoticon everything that comes out of Mark’s mouth? Is it necessary for you to make ad hominem attacks on someone’s opinion?
Comment by Karen — April 16, 2007 @ 4:43 pm
The funny thing about this is that I thought perhaps I had been a little stringent in my thought after Charles’ allegations of my supposed “Southern Baptist preacher delivering a brimstone and damnation sermon” in comments on the topic. I thought perhaps I was acting like a prick because his reply obviously made it sound like such.
Thanks to the comments and emails of Daryl, Dave, Karen, and Mark I know that I was not acting like a prick and now my beliefs in the negatives of advertising in podcasting are even stronger.
Now: You couldn’t pay me to advertise on my podcast!!!
Comment by Ross — April 16, 2007 @ 5:13 pm
Karen and Ross, Thanks for the lovely comments.
Comment by Charles Cadenhead — April 16, 2007 @ 8:17 pm
Charles, since the thanks are being slung about: Thanks for referring to me as a “Southern Baptist preacher delivering a brimstone and damnation sermon”. While it doesn’t make any sense…it sure sounds good.
Now what were we talking about again? The root of all evil, money?
Comment by Ross — April 16, 2007 @ 11:19 pm
Thank you Ross and Karen for proving my point. I couldn’t do better myself.
Comment by Charles Cadenhead — April 17, 2007 @ 8:41 am
I may be a bit slow,and I may confuse easily and get distracted by shiny objects (I have my macbook pro in front of me and all) but I don’t know what the point being referred to is.
Comment by Dave Brodbeck — April 17, 2007 @ 10:42 am
I’m confused too (which isn’t good because I too confuse easily).
Aside from the fact that I make my comments and Karen has made hers, we haven’t made any joint statements, we haven’t even come remotely close to making the same point…I’m not sure how we proved this mysterious point.
Comment by Ross — April 17, 2007 @ 12:47 pm
[...] of team that has those skills) and then maybe you’ll have something to build on. In fact, I blogged about this nearly a year ago using a garden as a metaphor for building skills and engaging in sustainable [...]
Pingback by On the business of new media and social media — December 3, 2007 @ 1:21 pm
I disagree with Ross (first post). You can very well make money from your “hobby”, or better yet, your passion. I have a business now that is connected with my passion and hobby. Many people still do not connect their passion to their job. In fact, we still have a lot of people who give up on that, and just settle on something else. I have found that in a lot of circumstances, those who do give up will always have that “what if” moment. But it is proven that when you do what you actually love to do, then you will put in a lot more effort and have a better chance to being an excellent employee or business owner. Looking at a hobby, something that you just love to do, and turning it into a career choice is absolutely possible and enjoyable.
Comment by Christi Pemberton — September 27, 2009 @ 5:50 pm
You may be interested in listening to episode 130 of The Canadian Podcast Buffet (http://www.canadianpodcastbuffet.ca/?p=252) which explores 9 models of making money from social media, including the premise of turning your hobby into a revenue stream. The discussions explore everything from pocket change to significant components of a financial institution’s annual revenue — no speculation… all real experiences, all real numbers.
Comment by Mark — September 28, 2009 @ 7:31 am
Violent agreement? I'm not sure if that's good or bad.
I'll just add this: I have no problem being paid to do something I enjoy but I would not compromise my enjoyment for the sake of making money. If I ceased to enjoy doing it, I would stop. Further, I would have no problem selling what I create to a source worthy of owning my creation however I would not dilute my creation with something that does not add to the creation (e.g. advertisement, sponsor).
[In other words, I'm not taking on ads or sponsors but if you want to buy a piece of art (audio or otherwise) we can negotiate a price.]
I should also add that I have no problem going to a “day job” where my heart is not “100% into it” because let's face it…we need to make a living to survive and it's a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll.
Comment by Ross — December 31, 2009 @ 3:01 am